[jenny_tomei]: hello and welcome to the jenup podcast i am jenny tomei I’m a qualified nutritional thearpist

[jenny_tomei]: and personal trainer. We have Sam Woodfield who is my

[jenny_tomei]: new co host. He is ex elite cyclist has recovered from an anorexia and orthorexia

[jenny_tomei]: we have launched a brand new series of podcast focusing on all things sporting performance and mental health

[jenny_tomei]: physical health and eating disorders so you want to ask

[jenny_tomei]: us anything you can find us a asking up on facebook and on instagram hand

[jenny_tomei]: you over to sam who is my new co host for the Jenup podcast

[sam]: so today with a huge amount of pleasure we have Renee McGregor with us who was

[sam]: actually at the forefront of my recovery during the years of two thousand seventeen and

[sam]: two thous eighteen and worked perfectly alongside my coach who i still speak with today

[sam]: at least later and it’s great to have on board Renee’s a leading sports dietician

[sam]: specializing eating disorders, reds, the athlete health and performance alongside the female athlete rid her

[sam]: practice and knowledge is supported by expensive extensive experience of working both clinical and performance

[sam]: nutrition including working on olympic games par olympic games and the commonwealth games and there’s

[sam]: published five amazing books so far with her most recent publication called more fuel you

[sam]: which will be giving away after this podcast so stay tuned

[renee_mcgregor]: oh

[sam]: to find out more at the end of how you can win a copy of

[sam]: renee’s book so the title of today is renee why are so many amateur athletes

[sam]: to copy how professionals live and train and what are the dangers to their health

[sam]: um something obviously when we worked together you picked up for me straight away so

[sam]: is something that you know i’ve experienced trying

[renee_mcgregor]: so

[sam]: to live like a professional without being professional but sing that goal so just a

[sam]: very brief kind of start to this podcast why why do you think so many

[sam]: people are doing it and what are the kind of without before we go into

[sam]: further data what are kind of the very implications of behaving like a professional as

[sam]: an amateur whether full time career may be a family and not having that full

[sam]: support network or even understanding behind you

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: uh well firstly thank you for having me on the podcast i think

[sam]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: it’s a very big question

[sam]: ye

[renee_mcgregor]: i’m just trying to work out where

[jenny_tomei]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: to start with it

[jenny_tomei]: yah

[renee_mcgregor]: because

[sam]: we are going to break it

[jenny_tomei]: it

[sam]: down

[jenny_tomei]: is a big

[renee_mcgregor]: i

[jenny_tomei]: person

[renee_mcgregor]: guess

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah i guess i suppose i suppose the question is why do we all strive

[renee_mcgregor]: to be athletes is it about being an athlete that is so important to us

[renee_mcgregor]: and why does it why is it something we strive for and what does it

[renee_mcgregor]: mean in terms of why can’t we get that within ourselves from other places it’s

[renee_mcgregor]: kind of like a very broad over view we’ve always had recreational athletes we’ve always

[renee_mcgregor]: had individuals who compete you know the weekends and evenings and you club club level

[renee_mcgregor]: athletes and that’s always been the case book it’s interesting that probably since the advent

[renee_mcgregor]: of social media where we have access to people twenty seven that it feels like

[renee_mcgregor]: individuals not able to manage their expectations as well and strive to be something that

[renee_mcgregor]: is deemed as idealistic is kind of i suppose where i would start with this

[renee_mcgregor]: question and obviously then if we are all being achievement focused if we’re focusing on

[renee_mcgregor]: the outcome of we have to be the very best version of ourselves all the

[renee_mcgregor]: time um m then

[renee_mcgregor]: it will lead to dis functional behaviors fundamentally because you know humans hard wired to

[renee_mcgregor]: avoid discomfort and you know when you’re looking at all these images constantly and you’re

[renee_mcgregor]: focusing on well you know i’m only either taken seriously or it’s my identity or

[renee_mcgregor]: is how i attain worth or whatever it might be why the reason is that

[renee_mcgregor]: you need to be at the top of the game within your sport then understandably

[renee_mcgregor]: when you maybe aren’t achieving that or you don’t seem to be achieving it in

[renee_mcgregor]: your mind you don’t perceive to be achieving that and it’s a really important word

[renee_mcgregor]: that perceive then you’re going to feel uncomfortable and humans don’t like discomfort they don’t

[renee_mcgregor]: like the feelings of not being good enough or you know feelings of criticism or

[renee_mcgregor]: feelings of abandonment or rejection

[sam]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: and we find means and ways of removing ourselves from those situations and so we

[renee_mcgregor]: kind of think okay well i’ll just push even harder because actually when you’re training

[renee_mcgregor]: or when you’re fixating on a body composition or when you’re fixing on food you’re

[renee_mcgregor]: basically finding a method of

[sam]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: think what’s really going on in

[jenny_tomei]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: you know the ground scheme of things so i’m not sure i’ve answered your question

[renee_mcgregor]: specifically but i think

[sam]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: fundamentally m

[renee_mcgregor]: i think social media contributes to this constant feeling of unworthiness

[jenny_tomei]: and

[renee_mcgregor]: and this sense of if you think about instagram tik tok or whatever it’s almost

[renee_mcgregor]: like every individual has an account has their own they’re basically promoting their own brand

[renee_mcgregor]: you know that’s what you’re promoting and with that comes a sense of identity and

[renee_mcgregor]: everybody wants to feel like they are the best you know they are i think

[renee_mcgregor]: what i get frustrated with a social media is that it’s become a platform for

[renee_mcgregor]: people to kind of demonstrate how extreme they are

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: and

[jenny_tomei]: ah

[renee_mcgregor]: that then also leads to disingenuity and and more and more sensational posts and more

[renee_mcgregor]: and more sensational

[sam]: yes

[renee_mcgregor]: stories that are not needed but yet they’re there on in a way you’re perpetuating

[renee_mcgregor]: that same message the message that you are uncomfortable and trying to achieve something by

[renee_mcgregor]: being that personal social media then perpetuating that for other vulnerable individuals who are seeing

[renee_mcgregor]: it which is why i have an absolute love hate relations hip with social media

[renee_mcgregor]: and i think the biggest point which i’ve

[jenny_tomei]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: kind of seemed to have missed until now is that obviously most of these individuals

[renee_mcgregor]: that talking about will be a certain type of personality you know there will be

[renee_mcgregor]: this kind of type a personality were they are always striving they are incredibly determined

[renee_mcgregor]: incredibly motivated perfectionism will have kicked in at some point you know sometimes we borne

[renee_mcgregor]: perfections and sometimes we’re not and i think that’s an important thing to discuss

[renee_mcgregor]: sometimes perfection develops as a meth of trying to attain worth so

[jenny_tomei]: my

[renee_mcgregor]: it’s a complicated picture it’s not as simple as

[jenny_tomei]: not

[renee_mcgregor]: i want to be the best going to do this it’s actually very very complicated

[renee_mcgregor]: and i think one of the things that frustrates me the most is lack of

[renee_mcgregor]: self awareness we teach younger generations like if we all had much more awareness of

[renee_mcgregor]: our personalities if we all had much more awareness of our behaviors than actually perhaps

[renee_mcgregor]: we could manage them better and we wouldn’t lead i wouldn’t lead to this high

[renee_mcgregor]: number of individuals with mental illness

[jenny_tomei]: i

[sam]: and that’s

[jenny_tomei]: firmly

[sam]: basically

[jenny_tomei]: believe

[sam]: what

[jenny_tomei]: that

[sam]: we had to battle for

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[sam]: as a two and a half

[renee_mcgregor]: m

[sam]: year battle

[renee_mcgregor]: m

[sam]: that we had back in the day so just moving very quickly on from that

[sam]: just a real quick one i remember having a conversation with you on my coach

[sam]: back eighteen and nineteen and going back to that social media thing i remember seeing

[sam]: something on on the post and i think it was a super high protein break

[sam]: first know carbs and it said off to do four hours and i remember sending

[sam]: that to ally and yourself and i remember your going you don’t know where they

[sam]: are in their training sam you don’t know what sat to the right or the

[sam]: left so actually that social media is often just to snip it as well obviously

[sam]: there’s twenty four hours in a day the seven days in a week you don’t

[sam]: know where going so just moving on obviously i think social media is great but

[sam]: i also think it’s got huge amount of negatives as i think and it’s your

[sam]: right those negatives that you picked up with with myself and probably many other people

[sam]: they pick up on the extreme behaviors and then they try and copy themselves so

[sam]: i think that’s where the negatives

[jenny_tomei]: oh

[sam]: come in um m into those sort of things and you know that’s when you’re

[sam]: going through that phase that’s that’s where you draw upon isn’t it it’s it’s all

[sam]: those small bits where you’re trying to i guess find a definition within yourself is

[sam]: it m

[renee_mcgregor]: i think i think and i was talking about thinking about this this morning because

[renee_mcgregor]: obviously you know there’s this new b b c documentary bvucthree documentary on the moment

[renee_mcgregor]: with zarmcdermat

[sam]: yeah

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: investigating eating disorders sort of eating

[jenny_tomei]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: and i was i have to admit i watched watched it and i was really

[renee_mcgregor]: disappointed i thought it was

[jenny_tomei]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: very badly done on i think what frustrated me is that they’ve chosen the presenter

[renee_mcgregor]: who is an influence and i get that’s the point you know until we stop

[renee_mcgregor]: until we stop

[jenny_tomei]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: using influences until brands stop wanting to perpetuate a particular image these individuals are not

[renee_mcgregor]: going to stop doing what they’re doing because that’s how they get paid fundamentally so

[renee_mcgregor]: if we are to protect the younger generation actually we need to stop having influences

[renee_mcgregor]: fundamentally that needs to stop being a career because it’s not helpful to anyone no

[renee_mcgregor]: it’s detrimental to people’s health and and the images are often you know of these

[renee_mcgregor]: very beautiful very like privileged background individuals who can make a living from social media

[renee_mcgregor]: because look a certain way they present a certain life style they have you know

[renee_mcgregor]: the ideal place where they live on they don’t

[jenny_tomei]: a

[renee_mcgregor]: they don’t have the educational knowledge to realize that what they are presenting feeding into

[renee_mcgregor]: individuals who are vulnerable

[jenny_tomei]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: on encouraging that narrative of i’m not good enough a sense of unworthiness and i’m

[renee_mcgregor]: not going to be accepted i’m not going to be good unless i have that

[renee_mcgregor]: life so i think like social media is definitely perpetuating this problem and definitely holding

[renee_mcgregor]: people i don’t think we can ever say it’s the true cause of an eating

[renee_mcgregor]: disorder i think

[jenny_tomei]: i

[renee_mcgregor]: you’re looking at people who have eating disorders fundamentally and eating disorder is a complex

[renee_mcgregor]: mental illness no it is biological based mental illness in the sense that people will

[renee_mcgregor]: have a predisposition to it

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: but if you put them in the right psycho social space then that is going

[renee_mcgregor]: to create the perfect storm

[sam]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: for these is functional

[sam]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: behaviors to occur and i get a bit frustrated when people talk about diet culture

[renee_mcgregor]: diet culture diet culture diet culture does not cause eating disorders that informs us in

[renee_mcgregor]: form our external world but actually if our internal world is not balanced because you

[renee_mcgregor]: we’re not sleeping properly or we’re not eating properly or we’re not hydrating properly we’re

[renee_mcgregor]: not resting properly or our stress levels are high because our jobs are so high

[renee_mcgregor]: powered if our internal world is not celebrated is not kind of balanced and we’re

[renee_mcgregor]: not aware of that it’s these two worlds the external and the internal with that

[renee_mcgregor]: predisposition that leads these disfunctional behaviors so

[jenny_tomei]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: you know i think there’s there’s a lot of people who said what can we

[renee_mcgregor]: do about social media well the responsibility lies with the brands responsibility lies with the

[renee_mcgregor]: images they’re trying to create and the fact that they encourage influences to make this

[renee_mcgregor]: their career like i still find it a very weird world like you know i

[renee_mcgregor]: left school i went to one i had to do a degree i had to

[renee_mcgregor]: get a vocation and i have worked my arse for twenty years

[sam]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: once did i ever think that i was going to make a living from selling

[renee_mcgregor]: a product

[jenny_tomei]: of

[renee_mcgregor]: like it’s all weird to me and call me old but actually that is that

[renee_mcgregor]: is real life and the problem is when you are working an industry where you’re

[renee_mcgregor]: given everything and it’s all based on image you don’t really know what hard work

[renee_mcgregor]: is you don’t actually understand what it means to learn and educate and no to

[renee_mcgregor]: actually there will be times in your career where it is a bit flat and

[renee_mcgregor]: it doesn’t go well and you have to go and do some more studies to

[renee_mcgregor]: to move yourself forward so then i don’t know i have i have some real

[renee_mcgregor]: issues with social media obviously i appreciate i use it as a platform but i

[renee_mcgregor]: use as a platform to try and be the voice against all the noise

[sam]: my

[jenny_tomei]: and

[renee_mcgregor]: i’m not enough

[sam]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: make a massive difference but i know i make a difference and that’s why i

[renee_mcgregor]: continue to do it but i’m really really mindful of everything i post on social

[renee_mcgregor]: media like i’m very aware of my following i’m very aware of the messaging i’m

[renee_mcgregor]: very aware of potentially how that might be interpreted i’m very conscious that i share

[renee_mcgregor]: nothing personal on social media because actually people don’t need to really know about my

[renee_mcgregor]: life like i’m not here to share my life

[sam]: kit

[renee_mcgregor]: with the world i’m here to share my knowledge and my experience and if you

[renee_mcgregor]: want to know what’s going on in my if you have to be my friend

[renee_mcgregor]: and you know i’m quite private about how many people are let into that as

[renee_mcgregor]: well so i think maybe that’s an old fashioned way of looking at it but

[renee_mcgregor]: that’s kind of very much how look at it and the more i work in

[renee_mcgregor]: this industry the more individuals i work with the more i see this is the

[renee_mcgregor]: problem you know we’ve got this constant information coming in there’s no there’s no there’s

[renee_mcgregor]: no let up from it is constantly bombarding you and when the brain is constantly

[renee_mcgregor]: receiving this messaging of course it’s going to assume that that is factual that is

[renee_mcgregor]: that that has to be true i’m only goin to be accepted if i look

[renee_mcgregor]: like this i’m nly gonna be a good cyclist if i eat like this because

[renee_mcgregor]: the brain isn’t it it’s a most amazing organ but it’s also it is

[sam]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: logically biased

[sam]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: to

[sam]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: things as simply as possible and when it doesn’t know the answer to something it

[renee_mcgregor]: either sees it negatively because that’s easy or it goes back to a place where

[renee_mcgregor]: it might remember that well the last time i did this this happened to me

[renee_mcgregor]: and so then it just informs you that that’s what’s going to happen again rather

[renee_mcgregor]: than you taking a step back going okay well yeah there’s some emotions here that

[renee_mcgregor]: have been invoked to me that remind me of another situation this is a really

[renee_mcgregor]: different situation we don’t give ourselves time to do that and that’s a lot of

[renee_mcgregor]: the work i do is helping people to understand their personality types understand the purpose

[renee_mcgregor]: of their behaviors around food exercise

[sam]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: and training and then put that all together and learn to be a bit more

[renee_mcgregor]: mindful

[sam]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: of how they respond to their thoughts

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah

[sam]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: quite good at ranting about this as you can

[jenny_tomei]: very

[renee_mcgregor]: probably

[jenny_tomei]: well

[renee_mcgregor]: tell

[jenny_tomei]: said

[sam]: i think

[jenny_tomei]: o know

[sam]: we

[jenny_tomei]: what i’m

[renee_mcgregor]: a

[sam]: yeah

[jenny_tomei]: i’m glad you said that about the influences but i’ve

[sam]: um

[jenny_tomei]: always wondered

[sam]: m

[jenny_tomei]: whether that very good for young people like seeing all that you know because i

[jenny_tomei]: think i would have suffered with that sort of growing up and like whether that’s

[jenny_tomei]: healthy for young people to be seeing all of that and like painting this image

[jenny_tomei]: of this unrealistic lifestyle like you know everyone has been bad days trying to obtain

[jenny_tomei]: like the unattainable so it’s really interesting that you said that actually

[renee_mcgregor]: i think jenny like i was talking to my daughter my daughter is going to

[renee_mcgregor]: be eighteen in two weeks and we were chatting about this last night i was

[renee_mcgregor]: like you know when i was growing up yes we had celebrities and we had

[renee_mcgregor]: film stars and we had pop stars and of course they were you know aspirational

[renee_mcgregor]: and you looked at them and you kind of like wow look at they look

[renee_mcgregor]: amazing but there was there was almost it was almost a boundary those are people

[renee_mcgregor]: that are that is what they do they’re over here

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: that they’re not attainable and so you while yes you may aspire to think oh

[renee_mcgregor]: wouldn’t it be nice to look like that it wasn’t something that informed you of

[renee_mcgregor]: i have to look like that to be accepted it was it was aspiration so

[renee_mcgregor]: the eating disorders of old if you want to call it that were very much

[renee_mcgregor]: around trauma you know like

[jenny_tomei]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: somebody who did have an disorder might is order was very much in response to

[renee_mcgregor]: a dramatic event and it was my method of avoiding the difficult emotions around that

[renee_mcgregor]: avoiding the disappointment i felt

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: because of what had happened and it was a method of communicating how insignificant i

[renee_mcgregor]: felt right so it was a very

[jenny_tomei]: so

[renee_mcgregor]: different purse and i’m not saying people don’t have that now there’s still

[jenny_tomei]: no

[renee_mcgregor]: many many individuals with sort that is absolutely the case however the rise like you

[renee_mcgregor]: know like i think the last it was the being i over two hundred and

[renee_mcgregor]: twenty three per cent rise in prevalence of disordered eating and even disorders since

[jenny_tomei]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: the pandemic you know the rise is actually more about this constant sense of unworthiness

[renee_mcgregor]: everybody is feeling

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: because there is so much noise out there about what ideal looks like

[jenny_tomei]: i do

[renee_mcgregor]: and so even the most robust of us you know who have got a lovely

[renee_mcgregor]: loving families and you know we have received unconditional love and all the things that

[renee_mcgregor]: are important for us to feel fully like fully self worth and fully content with

[renee_mcgregor]: who we are as people even the most of us struggling because we’re like yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: image keeps coming back up that life style is like

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: you know it gets a lot of attention or whatever and so is its influencing

[renee_mcgregor]: how we feel and it is creating fact

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: from imagery fundamentally and i think it’s just it’s just something i think it’s really

[renee_mcgregor]: important to people to understand that our thoughts and our emotions are important that they’re

[renee_mcgregor]: trying to help us to understand what is going on in our world but they’re

[renee_mcgregor]: not factual and learning to respond to that is a really big part of just

[renee_mcgregor]: actually surviving being a hum

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: in the world that we live in

[jenny_tomei]: definitely just because we’ve got a lot of questions to get through today i just

[jenny_tomei]: want to ask you quickly what would

[sam]: oh

[jenny_tomei]: you say what’s the difference between disordered eating and eating disorder because i see a

[jenny_tomei]: lot of people social media saying this is disorder eating and i’m like really i

[jenny_tomei]: don’t think it is so how would you distinguish the like because i was just

[jenny_tomei]: seen a lot of misinformation about it

[renee_mcgregor]: yah

[jenny_tomei]: i

[renee_mcgregor]: yah yeah i mean it’s a difficult one there’s a very very fine line

[jenny_tomei]: right

[renee_mcgregor]: between them if i’m honest but i suppose if you’re looking at it purely from

[renee_mcgregor]: a diagnostic criteria point of view eating disorders have specific no stick criteria

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: in the in order to be diagnosed with an exiobilinia bin in disorder to name

[renee_mcgregor]: a few you have to have certain characteristics

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: and within certain time frames

[jenny_tomei]: okay

[renee_mcgregor]: so that’s how an eating disorder is diagnosed whereas disordered eating is oh anything that

[renee_mcgregor]: causes a dis functional relationship with food you know when you when it impacts ability

[renee_mcgregor]: to live when it creates anxiety when its rules you feel you have to live

[renee_mcgregor]: by in order to feel this full sense of security to me that’s what disordered

[renee_mcgregor]: eating is and i say majority of people fall into this category but because there’s

[renee_mcgregor]: not diagnostic criteria for

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: it they often get overlooked and missed because they might not look some way they

[renee_mcgregor]: might not have the symptoms that are often associated with an eating disorder but that’s

[renee_mcgregor]: not to say they’re not equally as dangerous and

[jenny_tomei]: i

[renee_mcgregor]: often people will usually go down the road of disordered eating into an eating disorder

[jenny_tomei]: right

[renee_mcgregor]: because we know particularly if it’s restrictive eating

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: um you know if you’re removing food groups and you’re becoming very restrictive in your

[renee_mcgregor]: eating obviously if there is potentially that will have significant effects to your brain which

[renee_mcgregor]: can then

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: lead more to sort of anarexic cognition and an anax thinking

[jenny_tomei]: okay

[renee_mcgregor]: but equally if you have very rapid weight loss again that can also be problematic

[renee_mcgregor]: so that’s the main difference i would say

[jenny_tomei]: okay all right no thanks for that thank you sam we’ve lost your video

[sam]: because

[jenny_tomei]: by

[sam]: i know

[jenny_tomei]: the way

[sam]: when we yet really i should be back

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: i can see sam

[sam]: yeah

[jenny_tomei]: are you okay

[sam]: so

[jenny_tomei]: that’s it’s just me then

[sam]: when we look

[jenny_tomei]: next question

[sam]: look

[jenny_tomei]: son

[sam]: like over some of our notes from yeah i looked back over some of our

[sam]: notes on twenty seventeen and and the first sentence actually said i don’t believe you

[sam]: have an eating disorder but i believe you have a strife of perfection ism and

[sam]: disordered eating and it’s really interesting what you said there and i just want to

[sam]: touch a little bit just so some p all can get an understanding of kind

[sam]: of how we spotted and how we dealt with itit was a long process as

[sam]: we know but just so people are aware of like signs and symptoms whether it’s

[sam]: family a coach for example who can’t see it um friends family members how did

[sam]: i come across to you what were the kind of signs and signs and symptoms

[sam]: and the explanations i was giving you i know it’s back in seventeen now but

[sam]: just what was what was i showing showing in our initial like brief food diaries

[sam]: things like that just as people get like an understanding of where it started and

[sam]: then how it drew out for another well three years let’s go with

[renee_mcgregor]: so

[jenny_tomei]: a

[renee_mcgregor]: i don’t remember saying you didn’t have any disorder

[sam]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: but okay maybe i did

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: i i think the key thing for me was absolute obsession with getting it right

[renee_mcgregor]: which obviously feeds into that perfectionism

[sam]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: and

[renee_mcgregor]: the most challenging part of working with you was your inability to recognize this was

[renee_mcgregor]: about something much deeper than just food and body image and no matter how much

[renee_mcgregor]: i tried to explain that to you you were not prepared to look at it

[sam]: he

[renee_mcgregor]: you just went back to food and body image the whole time which did make

[renee_mcgregor]: it challenging working with you because i think for you there’s been so much loss

[renee_mcgregor]: and so much sadness and so much trauma in your life that you just didn’t

[renee_mcgregor]: want to experience that which i completely understand and it’s much easier to talk to

[renee_mcgregor]: me about food and body image and training than it is to talk about stuff

[renee_mcgregor]: that really hurt

[sam]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: and that’s why you were doing it that’s why you were fixated on body image

[renee_mcgregor]: and training and that was really clear from day one and even though we had

[renee_mcgregor]: information about you know what was going on with you from from a physical point

[renee_mcgregor]: of view because we had blood on you and we had tangible data and we

[renee_mcgregor]: were saying this is what is happening to your body it still wasn’t enough at

[renee_mcgregor]: that point in that moment for you to

[jenny_tomei]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: fully except that there was a problem i think it took quite a long time

[renee_mcgregor]: before you like like when you came to me you knew something was wrong but

[renee_mcgregor]: i don’t think you were prepared to hear what i had to say initially it

[renee_mcgregor]: took you a while to basically to trust me and to trust the process of

[renee_mcgregor]: actually this is not really about food or exercise at all this is about something

[renee_mcgregor]: much deeper until i sought out that until i’m aware of what i’m working with

[renee_mcgregor]: i’m probably not going to be able to let go because as i said earlier

[renee_mcgregor]: food exercise body image there just the method of communication not the problem not

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: the issue there are means of expressing what’s really going on for someone and i

[renee_mcgregor]: think this is a really important point in terms of i want to make this

[renee_mcgregor]: point now is that when when you’re working with a practitioner you have got disordered

[renee_mcgregor]: eating or eating disorder they don’t recognize that that practitioner probably shouldn’t be working in

[renee_mcgregor]: the field either because it’s never about food it’s never about here’s a plan off

[renee_mcgregor]: you go now you needed some guidance because you were so under feeling and you

[renee_mcgregor]: were not prepared to give up your training that we had to give you guidance

[renee_mcgregor]: around your nutrition in order to start to re educate you and that is a

[renee_mcgregor]: big part of helping someone re education process but depending on what’s put in front

[renee_mcgregor]: of you sometimes actually you have to kind of leave the food off the table

[renee_mcgregor]: and actually start talking to them about their behavior you know what is the purpose

[renee_mcgregor]: of this behavior as a human if you can start to understand the purpose of

[renee_mcgregor]: all your behavior much more in a much better position to then consider do i

[renee_mcgregor]: need to carry on with this behavior

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: most of the time human behavior is all about protection trying to protect ourselves from

[renee_mcgregor]: something that was really incredibly difficult for us if you think about a small child

[renee_mcgregor]: who lies because they’ve broken something but they don’t want to get told off so

[renee_mcgregor]: they lie and say is their brother a sister or it was the dog or

[renee_mcgregor]: whatever to their parent

[sam]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: all they’re doing there is protecting themselves because they’re worried they’re going to get told

[renee_mcgregor]: off it’s the same thing so when we start using food and body image exercise

[renee_mcgregor]: that behavior provides a false sense security in if i get this right if i

[renee_mcgregor]: focus on this it provides me with this false sort of sense of containment

[sam]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: because if this is right then everything else will be right

[sam]: oh h

[renee_mcgregor]: um

[sam]: h

[renee_mcgregor]: and i think we struggled with you understanding that

[sam]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: probably a year before you finally were like

[sam]: m m

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah right now i get it but i think some of that was because we

[renee_mcgregor]: also had to improve your energy availabilities that you could actually you your brain to

[renee_mcgregor]: understand what was going on and that’s another big part of people you know when

[renee_mcgregor]: you’re under field and you are in low energy availability

[sam]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: it does cause your nervous system to be on high alert you do feel this

[renee_mcgregor]: sense of i’m going to say anxiety in inverted commerce because i think we over

[renee_mcgregor]: use the term anxiety lot but what’s really happening is that there’s a threat you

[renee_mcgregor]: know your body sees this under feeling as a threat and it’s creating that physiological

[renee_mcgregor]: sign of this threat in the body but because you don’t know what that threat

[renee_mcgregor]: is because you’re not you don’t there’s no way you think it’s about food or

[renee_mcgregor]: exercise or not resting enough you because of the world we live in we think

[renee_mcgregor]: or it’s because you know somebody said this to me or because that’s expected of

[renee_mcgregor]: me and i haven’t achieved it and so we were very good at projecting out

[renee_mcgregor]: all the time instead of going actually seologically yah i haven’t actually field properly

[sam]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: that might be the cause of why i’m feeling anxious and again i wish it

[renee_mcgregor]: was wish people would understand that you know because unfortunately the human body will respond

[renee_mcgregor]: physiologically to under feeling in the same way as it would respond to being chased

[renee_mcgregor]: in a in a strange way

[sam]: yeah yeah it was certainly a learning curve and it did take a long time

[sam]: we haven’t spoken that much but i did actually go and seek in the end

[sam]: we did get there eventually athlete wise i don’t know where we’ll go going into

[sam]: next year

[renee_mcgregor]: ye

[sam]: no

[renee_mcgregor]: oh

[sam]: adventures still lie ahead we achieved a fair amount but you know just finishing this

[sam]: topic we fully knew where it came from it did come from for people that

[sam]: haven’t heard about my story before i lost my mom in two thousand and fifteen

[sam]: and everything kind of deteriated quite fast from that so you know and that topic

[sam]: has now been addressed and we have moved forward with it slowly but we’re getting

[sam]: there i think we know it was always going to be a battle but yeah

[sam]: we right and we still just eat plenty of food so we’re on the right

[sam]: track just just to cover one more topic was for myself was going over a

[sam]: threxia because obviously i think the problem i had o and you noticed it was

[sam]: yes there was limited fueling definitely but there was also a and on top of

[sam]: that there was a desire to eat very good food very clean food and inverted

[sam]: commas or threat tendencies no very low sugar no process needed to know the ingredients

[sam]: so people are aware because it isn’t spoken about a lot it is getting better

[sam]: people are opening up to it

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah

[sam]: just to keep

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah

[sam]: this one

[jenny_tomei]: m

[sam]: slightly short of what what should people look out for you know friends family tea

[sam]: mates especially that seems to be coming back into endurance sport what the scent symptoms

[sam]: of someone developing that aurthorexic tendencies or way of life

[sam]: m it might have come

[renee_mcgregor]: sorry i lost you there

[jenny_tomei]: lost

[sam]: it’s

[jenny_tomei]: you

[sam]: just

[jenny_tomei]: there

[sam]: got

[jenny_tomei]: say that again

[sam]: it’s just what are the kind of a threat it tendencies that we need to

[sam]: look for in friends family team mates how can we see like they’re starting to

[sam]: go down this brow clean root

[renee_mcgregor]: yes the definition of authorexya is the obsession with eating purely or eating correctly and

[renee_mcgregor]: so it is very common in athletes particularly because you know there’s this kind of

[renee_mcgregor]: notions having to eat yeh i guess if you want to call it cleanly i

[renee_mcgregor]: don’t really still don’t personally understand what that means but you know this kind of

[renee_mcgregor]: need to keep it pure this need to keep it kind of yeah free of

[renee_mcgregor]: process food but again i would question well what’s a process food like it’s a

[renee_mcgregor]: very kind of there’s a lot of there’s a lot of gray areas in terms

[renee_mcgregor]: of what is this life style but again you know we go back to the

[renee_mcgregor]: messages that are out there definitely demon certain foods and definitely provide other foods with

[renee_mcgregor]: halo effects and i think you know that’s where author kicks in and it’s not

[renee_mcgregor]: it’s not like again we have now got some quite clear diagnostic criteria for authorex

[renee_mcgregor]: year and in fact the the concensus statement came out last yesterday and i’m part

[renee_mcgregor]: of the consensus group so we were published yesterday which is very exciting and it’s

[renee_mcgregor]: the first step i think for authorize to be actually recognized as a problem in

[renee_mcgregor]: its own right

[jenny_tomei]: i

[renee_mcgregor]: so some of the symptoms you might see will be kind of ye some o

[renee_mcgregor]: the symptoms you’d see will be things like avoiding certain food groups so it might

[renee_mcgregor]: be that you avoid things like sugar you might avoid things like potentially carbohydrate although

[renee_mcgregor]: i think people sing to realize the importance of card now particularly in a athletic

[renee_mcgregor]: point of view but the fear around sugar is

[sam]: yet

[renee_mcgregor]: still big you might avoid certain things like dairy for example you may practice certain

[renee_mcgregor]: types of nutrition approaches such as doing detoxing regularly because you feel that it kind

[renee_mcgregor]: of help you reset and so there’s a lot of rules a lot of rules

[renee_mcgregor]: and often somebody who is severely author it will struggle to deviate from these rules

[renee_mcgregor]: because again the rules provide them with this false in security that they’re safe in

[renee_mcgregor]: some way it’s very much about being healthy it’s not like with anoxia or even

[renee_mcgregor]: belem it’s not really around body image is such it’s much more about

[jenny_tomei]: okay

[renee_mcgregor]: this purest this need to be pure this need to be healthy this need to

[renee_mcgregor]: be correct and we’re definitely seeing it more and the individual tends to because of

[renee_mcgregor]: this the indidul does tend to be very evangelistic around the way they eat so

[renee_mcgregor]: you know when when veganism became very very popular a few years ago that was

[renee_mcgregor]: very much kind of not saying for one reason that i’m not saying for a

[renee_mcgregor]: reason that there’s nothing wrong with being big and there isn’t however we do know

[renee_mcgregor]: that it can be a method of disguising author traits because obviously it gives you

[renee_mcgregor]: a legitimate reason to avoid certain food groups

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: and you you work through when somebody is authorexic because they’re began because you you

[renee_mcgregor]: know he’s there’s means and ways of being a healthy individual following a vegan diet

[renee_mcgregor]: in you know there are certain products you would encourage over other products as example

[renee_mcgregor]: you would encourage them to have say rather than almond milk because that gives a

[renee_mcgregor]: lot much more protein however if the individual is always pushing back on that you

[renee_mcgregor]: kind of know what something probably deeper rooted going on here rather than

[jenny_tomei]: i

[renee_mcgregor]: it just being about veganism so i think like to kind of simplify it is

[renee_mcgregor]: that this this very evangelistic surest way of eating but often leads to a lot

[renee_mcgregor]: of restrictions that can then start to have quite negative consequences on your health and

[renee_mcgregor]: your performance if you are an athlete

[jenny_tomei]: okay what

[sam]: i mean

[jenny_tomei]: sort

[sam]: i

[jenny_tomei]: of

[sam]: think we’ll

[jenny_tomei]: what sort of

[sam]: touch

[jenny_tomei]: side effects

[sam]: on that

[jenny_tomei]: okay when you’re in touch on that now

[sam]: i think we we we we’re going to touch on that in a few episodes

[sam]: late you know the dangers of being an endurance athlete an our thorax but i

[sam]: know i know one thing jed

[jenny_tomei]: okay

[sam]: did want to talk about was kind of around female athlete tried quickly because i

[sam]: know it’s something that is now coming more in the in the media both socially

[sam]: and on the news and it would be really good to hear jenny’s question on

[sam]: that and what you’re thoughts on it are and tips and strategies around it gen

[jenny_tomei]: i mean first obviously

[sam]: is she

[jenny_tomei]: just

[sam]: there

[jenny_tomei]: want to get across what white is red can you hear me

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah

[sam]: oh

[jenny_tomei]: a good it’s relative

[renee_mcgregor]: i can

[jenny_tomei]: energy

[renee_mcgregor]: he

[jenny_tomei]: posit

[sam]: m

[jenny_tomei]: in dom isn’t it so so what are the tips and strategies like for a

[jenny_tomei]: female athlete who has lost their period for like greater than six months like what

[jenny_tomei]: would you suggest for them

[renee_mcgregor]: i think i mean because you’ve mentioned female athlete trade and you’ve mentioned reads quite

[renee_mcgregor]: important to kind of explain how they overlap because

[jenny_tomei]: okay

[renee_mcgregor]: we don’t use the term female athlete tried any more at all

[jenny_tomei]: okay

[renee_mcgregor]: we use reds which is relative energy deficiency in sport and that’s because we worked

[renee_mcgregor]: out you know i see consensus group came together and they appreciated that this low

[renee_mcgregor]: energy availability that undepends issues to hormones and then bone health actually wasn’t just exclusive

[renee_mcgregor]: to females it was actually something that happens to both males and females so the

[renee_mcgregor]: triad no long it exists because we know that actually if you have low energy

[renee_mcgregor]: availability then you have that that will affect the production of things like estrogen and

[renee_mcgregor]: testostoron if both are low they start to affect bone health however we also know

[renee_mcgregor]: that it’s not just again exclusive to bone health and hormones actually affects every single

[renee_mcgregor]: biological process in the body it can affect your performance your body composition your digestive

[renee_mcgregor]: system

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: your psychology potentially in some individuals your cardiac health it’s a full full body system

[renee_mcgregor]: issue

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: fundamentally and that’s what red is and so in female athletes one of the symptoms

[renee_mcgregor]: you may get is changes to your menstr cycle and it might be the initially

[renee_mcgregor]: the menstral cycle gets a bit more erratic so like it could get shorter cycles

[renee_mcgregor]: you can get longer cycles

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: you might get lighter cycles and then eventually you might get this complete cessation of

[renee_mcgregor]: cycles and as said jenny if you get more than six

[sam]: yes

[renee_mcgregor]: if you lose you lose your cycle for more than six months then that in

[renee_mcgregor]: this country is known as hypodermic amen are and it’s secondary hypodermic amen area because

[renee_mcgregor]: you’ve because you’ve lost your period

[jenny_tomei]: right

[renee_mcgregor]: and it is a problem because we know as actually as little as losing three

[renee_mcgregor]: cycles can start have a negative effect on your bone health and put you a

[renee_mcgregor]: much higher risk of injury and illness including like tendon and ligament damage as well

[renee_mcgregor]: as then potentially bone bone issues so you know you can be i risk of

[renee_mcgregor]: stress fractures and also that takes you out for a very long time and it

[renee_mcgregor]: means you can’t be consistent with your with your training and then your performance so

[renee_mcgregor]: we know it’s a it’s a it’s a big issue in terms of helping female

[renee_mcgregor]: athlete restore menstration again it’s much more complicated than just energy

[sam]: a

[renee_mcgregor]: in versus energy out which is i think what is still being pushed

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: out there it’s a it’s a multi it’s a multi faceted problem in a sense

[renee_mcgregor]: that the human body obviously works in all these different feedback loops on fundamentally everything

[renee_mcgregor]: is controlled by the hyporthanemus so if the hyperthalumis detects any sort of stress in

[renee_mcgregor]: the body it’s going to start shutting down umhormonal production but it will also shut

[renee_mcgregor]: down all sorts of other things as well so when an individual comes to us

[renee_mcgregor]: with hypothetic amen are we do a full assessment and we look at sort of

[renee_mcgregor]: blood levels we look at training load we look at nutritional intake we look at

[renee_mcgregor]: kind of history like how long has this been going on for you look at

[renee_mcgregor]: sort of also like body composition history because actually that tells us a lot about

[renee_mcgregor]: the person

[jenny_tomei]: what

[renee_mcgregor]: and you know as we know a lot of female athletes believe they should fit

[renee_mcgregor]: a certain ideal but if genetically their senor type is not that way inclined

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: then actually there’s no way they’re going to have a menstralcycle at that ideal and

[renee_mcgregor]: then the challenge there is helping them to accept that for them to be a

[renee_mcgregor]: healthy and optimal athlete they probably need to be a slightly different physique than what

[renee_mcgregor]: they deem ideal so

[jenny_tomei]: okay

[renee_mcgregor]: you know there’s it’s a very complicated picture it’s not just about eat more and

[renee_mcgregor]: train less as sometimes we don’t have to change training too much but we do

[renee_mcgregor]: have to look at nutritional timing and nutrition of composition sometimes we do have to

[renee_mcgregor]: say really sorry but you’re going to have to pull back on the training significantly

[renee_mcgregor]: and again a lot of that is dependent on what is what is presented so

[renee_mcgregor]: you know and sometimes we get the training and the nutrition absolutely right but it

[renee_mcgregor]: still takes a long time for menstruation to return and that might be because there

[renee_mcgregor]: are other factors like poor sleep emotional stress or work stress or you know

[sam]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: other things that are going on so it’s not it’s quite a complicated picture

[jenny_tomei]: okay

[renee_mcgregor]: and again one of my big frustrations is how it’s been plified and dumb down

[renee_mcgregor]: that it’s just about energy availability

[jenny_tomei]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: and it’s just about kind of you know heating a certain number and actually that’s

[renee_mcgregor]: not always the case and that can be quite a dangerous approach if people kind

[renee_mcgregor]: of just go with this it’s just a certain number of calories that you need

[renee_mcgregor]: to hit because actually that doesn’t help the individual understand go back to what i

[renee_mcgregor]: was talking about earlier it doesn’t help the individual understand where the root of the

[renee_mcgregor]: issue is and how to mitigate it in the future which is

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: kind of what you want to do with want this this athlete to be resilient

[renee_mcgregor]: and robust

[jenny_tomei]: okay so it was

[sam]: on

[jenny_tomei]: hypethicanare wasn’t yea i say that right

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah

[jenny_tomei]: okay and that’s more than

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah

[jenny_tomei]: six months yeah ago yeah because i’m entered

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah

[jenny_tomei]: because that’s

[sam]: oh

[jenny_tomei]: something obviously i’m interested in that and everyone knows my story as well like one

[jenny_tomei]: here because i suffered with that so you know so it’s

[sam]: yeah

[jenny_tomei]: an your riots more than it’s

[sam]: yeah

[jenny_tomei]: not just about like this there are a lot of factors in my life that

[jenny_tomei]: was going on in terms of a lot of stress and anxiety in my body

[jenny_tomei]: being in a constant like fight off light state like constantly and that had a

[jenny_tomei]: massive impact on my gut where you know i had to stop training like completely

[jenny_tomei]: i had like inflammation and i was told that i had like a very leaky

[jenny_tomei]: got all this type of thing

[sam]: oh

[jenny_tomei]: and it

[sam]: ah

[jenny_tomei]: definitely was because yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: but

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah but if you are in low energy availability then you will have increased permiability

[renee_mcgregor]: of your got

[jenny_tomei]: right

[renee_mcgregor]: like that is a common symptom and i think that’s it it’s like it’s really

[renee_mcgregor]: important that this is why the whole broad spectrum of symptoms is so important to

[renee_mcgregor]: understand because some women’s mental cycle won’t be affected but they may still have a

[renee_mcgregor]: leaky gut they may still have gastroperesis they may still

[jenny_tomei]: right

[renee_mcgregor]: have increase you know tendon and ligament damage they may have autommunetype symptoms showing and

[renee_mcgregor]: this is the problem like it’s so much bigger than we first thought on the

[renee_mcgregor]: fix and on just the menstralcycle meant that not only did half the population get

[renee_mcgregor]: overlooked but it also meant that some of the females that didn’t show changes in

[renee_mcgregor]: their menstralcycle were also being overlooked and yet they still had problems

[sam]: i

[renee_mcgregor]: so

[jenny_tomei]: ah

[renee_mcgregor]: it’s a it’s a it’s a very is a complicated red as is not simple

[sam]: it

[jenny_tomei]: no ah

[renee_mcgregor]: it’s not a simple simple condition it’s very very complicated and affects people in many

[renee_mcgregor]: many ways and it takes a long time for the body to re align and

[renee_mcgregor]: appreciate the threat of stress whatever that stress might be

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: is no longer apparent

[jenny_tomei]: yeah definitely it’s really interesting um m thanks for sharing that makes a lot of

[jenny_tomei]: sense

[jenny_tomei]: so

[renee_mcgregor]: m

[jenny_tomei]: sam what

[renee_mcgregor]: m

[jenny_tomei]: you

[sam]: with

[jenny_tomei]: want ask the next question

[sam]: with

[jenny_tomei]: what

[sam]: time

[jenny_tomei]: we’re going into it

[sam]: yeah just time pressing on obviously

[jenny_tomei]: m

[sam]: we can talk about all this stuff for hours we’ll do one more question we’ve

[sam]: just got some quick fire

[renee_mcgregor]: i

[sam]: questions

[renee_mcgregor]: speak

[sam]: for you at the end really that’s quick fires based just what i

[renee_mcgregor]: m

[sam]: know about what you like and dislike so obviously one thing i have noticed very

[sam]: quickly is this five a m club thing has become a massive thing on social

[sam]: media at the minute or i must be up at five get my training done

[sam]: and then i’m at my desk for the next twelve hours within that there must

[sam]: be some nutritional issues i eating at five o’clock in the morning first isn’t easy

[sam]: and there’s particularly enjoyable so on that

[jenny_tomei]: uh

[sam]: people are training

[jenny_tomei]: h

[sam]: fasted you know what is what are first quickly your thoughts on faster training and

[sam]: second what are the dangers of faster training because if these are time crunched athletes

[sam]: it’s not going to be a recovery pace and it’s probably not going to be

[sam]: that low end you know zone two very steady hour it’s going to be something

[sam]: quite high intense hind stephen sorry

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: so the issue with i mean the several issues

[sam]: yeah a

[renee_mcgregor]: training at five a m one is you’re probably not getting enough sleep and sleep

[renee_mcgregor]: is really important for your recovery process and is again often completely undervalued the importance

[renee_mcgregor]: of sleep on our mental and

[sam]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: physical health and go back to that internal

[sam]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: world if we haven’t slept very well then actually our internal world will be off

[renee_mcgregor]: kilter so that’s something to be and full of secondly we know that when we

[renee_mcgregor]: wake in the morning our quarters level which is our stress form and is always

[renee_mcgregor]: at its highest and if you then add

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: another layer of stress to that so another layer of physical stress in terms of

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: training then potentially you could end up with chronically high quarters or levels you have

[renee_mcgregor]: conically high cortical levels a number of things happen one you tend to actually hold

[renee_mcgregor]: on to more

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: body fat truncally so you don’t actually get the benefit of training also it changes

[renee_mcgregor]: your metabolism of both carbohydrate and fat and so actually you become less efficient at

[renee_mcgregor]: you fueling generally and kind of digestion so it’s not i appreciate some people feel

[renee_mcgregor]: that’s the only time they’ve got but it definitely isn’t something that should be encouraged

[renee_mcgregor]: or recommended any coaches if they want to be responsible but obviously people will do

[renee_mcgregor]: what they will do because that is just the nature of humans and i think

[renee_mcgregor]: like if you’re going to do these five am clubs and you really need to

[renee_mcgregor]: be thinking about how to feel them properly so if you do these fasted all

[renee_mcgregor]: you’re doing is adding another layer of particularly if you’re doing these sessions you know

[renee_mcgregor]: like more of interval base sessions or hill rep type sessions or kind of you

[renee_mcgregor]: know holding higher zone for a longer period of time like a tempo type session

[renee_mcgregor]: like all of these are going to add a lot more stress to

[sam]: oh

[renee_mcgregor]: the body so

[jenny_tomei]: hm

[renee_mcgregor]: you’re fundamentally setting yourself up to fail in the long run because you’re one you’re

[renee_mcgregor]: not going to progress and to your performance will start to deteriorate eventually because it

[renee_mcgregor]: just cannot adapt appropriately um and we know that fasted sessions should generally be restricted

[renee_mcgregor]: to more like recovery sessions and they should never really be more than about six

[renee_mcgregor]: and ninety minutes max and really should not doing more than one or two of

[renee_mcgregor]: those a week

[jenny_tomei]: okay

[renee_mcgregor]: to be to be honest if you want to be optimal with your performance and

[renee_mcgregor]: your health as well so like some of the ideas i give people i work

[renee_mcgregor]: with is you know it doesn’t have to be that you have a full breakfast

[renee_mcgregor]: at five a m or for thirty or whatever it is is just making sure

[renee_mcgregor]: that there is energy available so potentially it might be having sports drink that you

[renee_mcgregor]: know you take a few sips of before you jump on the bike and then

[renee_mcgregor]: you take that with you and you keep on sipping on it so actually at

[renee_mcgregor]: least there’s some energy available to mitigate some of that potential stress um

[sam]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: or you know like you train your gut i mean i don’t do early morning

[renee_mcgregor]: sessions but i have trained my got to take fuel before i run so i

[renee_mcgregor]: can eat and run in half an hour because i’ve trained my got to be

[renee_mcgregor]: to do that

[jenny_tomei]: kay

[renee_mcgregor]: so you know that’s a case of kind of

[sam]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: that’s a case of trying to yea does just get used to your body being

[renee_mcgregor]: able to do that and so that means you have to do it and yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: you may have a couple of acts it’s along the way but that’s how you

[renee_mcgregor]: train you got to do it but like i said it’s about finding things that

[renee_mcgregor]: deliver but not necessarily going to be difficult to digest so i would never say

[renee_mcgregor]: you need to get a massive roll of porridge before you go and do a

[renee_mcgregor]: bike ride but actually can you have a glass of juice and a banana and

[renee_mcgregor]: you have

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[renee_mcgregor]: a slice of toast and then have a banana within twenty minutes of being on

[renee_mcgregor]: the bike you know it’s just about trying to mitigate the levels of stress in

[renee_mcgregor]: your body

[sam]: all sounds right

[jenny_tomei]: definitely uh

[sam]: just going that was something you

[jenny_tomei]: ah

[sam]: and i had to work on because i was so scared of eating before draining

[sam]: that i used to have to leave two hours whatever i ate and that’s what

[renee_mcgregor]: m

[sam]: i think looking back and i’ve reflected was my main

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah

[sam]: issue with red but actually yes i might have

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah

[sam]: had a bowl of porridge

[renee_mcgregor]: yeah

[sam]: but i was still waiting to as the train so i’ve probably negated that bowl

[sam]: of porage in terms of energy availability looking back when i’ve looked over but that’s

[renee_mcgregor]: a

[sam]: all the main questions i just want kind of the listeners who have tuned in

[sam]: before to just know a little bit more about yourself just a few little teasing

[sam]: questions

[renee_mcgregor]: okay

[sam]: just that i know about your personality only from the years we’ve spoken about so

[sam]: i know this

[jenny_tomei]: m

[sam]: i know the answer this

[renee_mcgregor]: i

[sam]: one would you

[renee_mcgregor]: no

[sam]: rather

[renee_mcgregor]: i

[sam]: go to the beach or would you rather be up in the mountains

[renee_mcgregor]: mountains

[sam]: matins i thought so

[jenny_tomei]: uh

[sam]: are you a coffee

[jenny_tomei]: uh

[sam]: or a tea person

[renee_mcgregor]: coffee

[sam]: i thought so i’d know the answer this are you

[jenny_tomei]: okay

[sam]: a dog or a cat person

[renee_mcgregor]: o

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[sam]: so

[renee_mcgregor]: oh

[sam]: and then just a few around nutrition if you would go up for me or

[sam]: would you rather have a starter or a desert oh

[renee_mcgregor]: state

[sam]: i’ve got that one okay if you were

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[sam]: to have a desert

[renee_mcgregor]: m

[sam]: would you have a chocolate brown or apple crumble with some custard

[renee_mcgregor]: apple crumble

[sam]: i thought that might be the answer

[jenny_tomei]: get out

[sam]: that’s that’s

[renee_mcgregor]: m

[sam]: everything covered as bob

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[sam]: maybe i did well the did anyway thank you ever so

[jenny_tomei]: so

[sam]: much for coming on today have you got any closing words or

[jenny_tomei]: yeah

[sam]: little bits of advice and then we can wrap everything up

[renee_mcgregor]: i think all i’d say is just remember that humans are

[sam]: m

[renee_mcgregor]: i always say this they are a really fine piece of engineering and if you

[renee_mcgregor]: focus on outcome alone going to disrupt that engineering because you don’t often appreciate that

[renee_mcgregor]: fixating on one aspect is going to disrupt something internally

[sam]: my

[renee_mcgregor]: somewhere else so that’s kind of my parting words

[sam]: i think that’s pretty much spot on obviously working before i know your

[renee_mcgregor]: oh

[sam]: your take on things and your your outlook on life and that seems a very

[sam]: nice way to summarize the last hour really that just lose a little

[renee_mcgregor]: m

[sam]: bit of the control element and just go with life a little bit more things

[sam]: can be okay

[sam]: ah

[renee_mcgregor]: definitely

[sam]: do you just

[jenny_tomei]: well

[sam]: want

[jenny_tomei]: thank

[sam]: to run

[jenny_tomei]: you

[sam]: through

[jenny_tomei]: so

[sam]: the

[jenny_tomei]: much

[sam]: competition jenny and then we can just wrap everything

[jenny_tomei]: yeah so we’re going

[sam]: just

[jenny_tomei]: to

[sam]: run

[jenny_tomei]: give

[sam]: through

[jenny_tomei]: away

[sam]: the camp

[jenny_tomei]: runs book so it’s more for you you you can find out details i thin

[jenny_tomei]: we’re gonna post it

[renee_mcgregor]: m

[jenny_tomei]: about on instagram

[renee_mcgregor]: oh

[jenny_tomei]: as well so you can find the link as well to the competition in their

[jenny_tomei]: show notes as well which i’m going to put out and so you have all

[jenny_tomei]: that inform ation there but just want to say thanks again for rene for coming

[jenny_tomei]: on really appreciate it and thanks for listening everyone and thank you to sam for

[jenny_tomei]: chasing

[sam]: thank you

[jenny_tomei]: yes

[sam]: very much

[renee_mcgregor]: thanks everyone